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Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:52 pm 
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We went round and round on o5e trying to figure out how to justify buying eTPU tools...and never got there. That as what moved the FPGA idea forward as there are free tools and prices are WAY down. I love the eTPU idea, but opensource needs free tools.

There is a labview knock-off now I think, basing an ECU interface on that would probably be the way to go. Adaptronic looks pretty easy to work with but there were odd limits to what you could edit baked in and the HW wasn't V12 friendly so I passed....but an ARM_FPGA with a labview interface....you should build one :D


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:26 pm 
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There are a lot of open-source graphical environments, but to build something like an ECU you need code that can run at high speed with predictable timing behavior. Usually the easiest way to do this is to auto-code to C and compile it, and most environments just run their code internally.

I agree on the FPGA tools being free, it's a downside to the eTPU. However, working with an FPGA requires more work to replace what the eTPU provides in hardware. Maybe the answer is to use the eTPU and pre-build the entire platform code so users (working in a graphical environment) don't need the tools.

I'm out of piston engine development now, so I don't have a lot of opportunity to develop something like this.

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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:46 pm 
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Enginelab seems to treat the "model" difference than a program. Its not firmware, you don't compile it, you can make changes on the fly....so its not "running" the model, its following the model might be a better description.

The time critical stuff like spark, fuel, crank decoding happen when you call the "engine description" item in the model....it honestly a lot like the eTPU. There is a list of variables you must create even if you don't plan to use them, the item requires them so you must create them. They include the basic spark stuff like dwell and timing, and fuel timing and pulse width. Then the window you see when you open the item has things like number of cylinders, 2/4 stroke, number of injectors, crank/cam type, stuff like that. Then when you input crank/cam signal you get fuel and spark outputs, update the inputs you created and you get revised outputs just like updating the eTPU functions but the stuff you see in the item widow can only be changed in "stop" mode, then become live when you go back to "run" mode, again just like initializing the eTPU.

So all that is the firmware that is actually running. The model that the user creates and sees and interacts with in the UI is different....it doesn't actually control time critical anything. I never had an adaptronic to play with but for sure there was stuff already hardcoded into it that the UI couldn't alter...remember I said it had things baked you can't change, many more than enginelab or the M1 motecs whiuch also seem to work in a similar way but the motec inter face in more C-lite....similar but easier than actual C.

I think there are about 12 people on the planet that actually want this kind of control though. Most want plug n play that give them everything the factory ecu had but with easy tuning. Enginelab sales are almost all through AEM, the adaptronic labview like ecu is gone replace with a modular hw all the logic is locked setup, the M1 motecs are mostly sold as pnp with a handful of shops creating the content, locking it and selling the pnp packages. I just love it though......


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:31 pm 
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I see a big advantage in having a pre-written engine control model, but being more flexible in the spare IO. Being able to write simple code to control the duty cycle of spare solenoids, H bridges, build custom CAN messages, etc..

This could be useful for body control or other semi-custom car project applications also.

I think under the hood EngineLab uses a micro with the GTM timer module. I know it's a Renesas micro but I'm not sure exactly if it includes the GTM or the previous Renesas complex timer. GTM is essentially equivalent to eTPU but developed by Bosch. GTM has become a sort of standard for automotive micros, with NXP, Infineon, and Renesas all having GTM micros. As far as I know there are no low cost compilers for GTM either.

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~Arthur C. Clarke


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:21 pm 
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Yes. You know the timing is solid but then its very easy to control...it seems to work very well. I use some stuff I saw in the M1 manual, some from GM, some from my haltech days long ago....all the features I like. There are limits in that you can't call a variable twice which can be a challenge but so far so good. Which all brings me back to I'm sure the open source answer is ARM+FPGA. The FPGA gets coded once then the ARM feeds it just like the eTPU or GTM core of real ECU chips...but with free tools. Figureout how to get a labview like UI and it would be pretty cool setup.

.....Of course I know how to do none of that :?


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:50 pm 
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I really wish I had legitimate reasons to put the time into a project like that. You could use a chip like the Zynq (Xilinx FPGA + ARM CPU + Peripherals). They aren't particularly cheap, it's like $75 for the chip alone at Digikey, and it also doesn't have internal ROM memory and only has a small amount of internal RAM. It acts more like an embedded computer than a microcontroller, and the IO reflects this, so it requires more electronics design to deal with the low voltage IO and you would probably need more external chips for low speed bulk IO.

The FPGA option would probably require a lot more development work than the eTPU though, for engine IO. That said, it would be more approachable than the eTPU. I guess I just like the 5777 because I work on it daily.

Now I need a project engine..

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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ~Arthur C. Clarke


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:27 am 
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That all seems like a good idea but the cost of such a project would not make it viable compared to other very good standalone ecu's on the market.
Rusefi works fine but I honestly don't see it as a project for the future, not due to Hardware or software but for other reasons.
On the other hand speeduino has grown a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:13 am 
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Cost wise, adding the FPGA is $20. There are chips with everything, but that is an expensive path so simple ARM +FPGA and go.

Speeduino has grown! Its dirt cheap and that is all most people care about. I remember when it launched as a 1 cylinder...then they kind of cobbled it to get to 4 which is where they are stuck. Most all the code other than engine control was already there, that is a HUGE step forward. There are lots of 4cyl engine so thats ok, but I'd need 3 :(.

Now, if it were re-done a bit to add an FPGA to a mega board the 4 cyl limit goes away....and I didn't dig to see how accurate they are to start with but that problem that they almost certainly have goes away too. Then TS is good...but its made for MS so it has some real limits as a result....my engninelab will log 1000 channels, a motecM1 10,000 but MS coms don't support stuff like that so TS doesn't, or didn't last I looked.

I don't know....something cool could be done, I just don't have the skill set to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:34 am 
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Who wrote the code for this o5e?
By the way speeduino is not limited to 4 cyl anymore, 6 and 8 is possible with teensy and stm32


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 Post subject: Re: o5e firmware
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:42 am 
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Possible or good? I saw 4 spark and 4 fuel outputs.....you can make an 8 cyl run with that count but its state of the art 1980 ;)

Mixture of people worked on the code....that author should be at the top in the comments. Paul, I've not heard from in a while and I'm afraid may no longer be with us, he was not a young man did the eTPU stuff. Jon did most everything else. I did small bits...but the small bits.


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