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ITB's on 550
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Author:  cribbj [ Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
I'm working on getting the GSXR 1000 TB's torn down and reassembled with spacers to fit the 98mm bore centers of the 550. One bank is finished:

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Debating how I'm going to mount these to the manifold. The spigot at the manifold end is 1 7/8" (47mm) OD, but it's only about 1/2" deep. I was considering just using coolant hose as a coupling, but 1/2" of metal isn't that much to grab.

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A better solution is the flange type spigot mounts made by Mikuni that SUDCO offer, but then I have to weld some flat plate to the runners of the manifold, and it's probably not going to be the correct depth, etc. for the final configuration.

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What I really need is a collar that fits the TB spigot on one end, then slips over the pipe on each runner.

I think there are some other people here that have used these bike TB's for Ferrari setups - what have you done for mounting?

I don't need anything too elegant (expensive) as this will be a one time use, only for the engine dyno.
Author:  mk e [ Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
Pretty!

I've seen double ended rubber couplers that lock to a groove on both sides....but I've also used hose and a hose was the OEM setup on my 1984 H-D XR1000, thye just stuffed the carb into a hose and put on a clamp. I'd start with hose because it's easy and with 6 clamps you'd think it would stay put nicely!

Those tabs for the thottles look pretty sturdy.....I'll bet you could weld or bolt on extensions and be perfectly happy with the result.
Author:  cribbj [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
More baby steps. These bright shiny pipe clamps don't look quite as conservative as plain black hose, but boy do they grip the spigots on the TB's! The interiors of these clamps have ribs that fit right into the grooves of the spigots, so once the worm clamps are tightened down, the TB's aren't going anywhere.

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The only issue with fitment is that I need about 3/4" to 1" of pipe showing between the clamps and those threaded bosses on top of the manifold, as that's where the fuel rails have to sit. That's why I need some stubby extensions welded on the runners when Mark gets his project running (hint, hint :))

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Author:  a1exander [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
A bit of a derail John however I was thinking how difficult it would be to slap 2 S50b32 or s50b30 heads on an M70 with their vanos units and throttle bodies....that would be as close to a Macca engine as one could get.....maybe Mark might wish to try something easier next time round.
Author:  cribbj [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
Alex, funny you should mention the elusive 4 cam M70 beemer motor.......

A few years ago I tracked down the guy in the UK who claimed he'd built it, and here's a pic when it was at Bogg Brothers wearing its new intake manifold:

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After a couple of email exchanges, I became convinced he'd really done it, as he mentioned solutions to several of the issues that had stymied other builders.
Author:  a1exander [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
Looks like he used the heads from the M52 (2500/2800cc) engine.
Compare how long the cam box studs are on his engine and this pic.
Interesting build that.
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Author:  cribbj [ Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
Indeed, and another mate that we refer to as "GT Andy" had the opportunity to try an M70 head gasket on an E36 M3 3L head , and it fit perfectly, with all oil & coolant passages lining up.

Here's a thread on the kitcar forum where a few of us were tracking this fabled build: http://www.kitcentral.com/index.php?nam ... 817fb24a55

Seems it would only take someone with enough hard headed determination and perseverance to do it. Who does that sound like? :)
Author:  a1exander [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
I found his public photobucket account.
He certainly reminds me of Mark.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/e30big/ ... .html?o=34

For those interested scroll through his pics and he also has a youtube video of that engine.
Sorry for the derailment :)
Author:  cribbj [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
Good find Alex!

These BMW V12's always seemed like the ideal swap engine. Very cheap to acquire and tons of them available, plus you have the assurance of all that German engineering and manufacturing. But then, when you dig into them, the reality begins to appear, and you discover all their nasty little secrets. The heads don't flow worth a d*mn because the engine was never designed to rev any higher than 5000 RPM, since it was built to haul around luxo-barges. Cams are way too conservative, compression ratio way too conservative, the cooling & oiling systems are crap, etc.

So you wind up with a short block that is kind of OK, and a pair of heads that need LOTS of work, or you bin them and try to adapt later, better flowing heads to it. That's the holy grail of BMW V12's, but very few have had the courage to go there, and even fewer have succeeded.

BMW builders around the country are happy to sell you a custom engine build for $20K that will make maybe 50 HP more. Really? OK, maybe 75 more on a cool day with a little fiddling of the dyno correction factors.........

So the next approach is displacement and that's the path I chose. A stroker crank from the 850, plus overboring and sleeving which took it to 6.0 liters. Hot cams, ITB's and a dry sump system were then added, and then everything came to a grinding halt with the builder (Henry Lawrence) in North Carolina, and that's where it's been for the last 4-5 years. I really need to go get that thing, but I don't have any place to put it!
Author:  mk e [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ITB's on 550
very cool :)
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