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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:57 pm 
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Lowell_Brown wrote:

What kind of wiring loom is that in the photos in this entry (that do not copy)?
Does this covering also shrink under high heat?
Where can I buy some?


Sorry, I missed the post. Its expandable wire loom.....like the Chinese finger cuffs, you push on the ends and it expands to slip over, then pull the is shrinks tight....if you picked the right size. It unravels easy so heat seal the ends after cutting, heat shrink to keep it in place. Lots of places sell it..mcmaster, amazon, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=expandable+w ... ss_sc_4_14


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:07 pm 
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More slow going getting the ECU's internal WBO2 controllers working. The guy who owns the ECU company shared a few models and this is one of them but he works in scripting and I don't so I had to figure that out a bit to get the model to built....then try to figure out what it does exactly. I think I have it it, at least mostly, it seems to be mostly working but I suspect I have something pinned wrong as it settles at .996 lambda sitting in open air which is clearly not right.

Now my plan was to roll the push mower over and stick the sensor in the exhaust to test it but the external controller sensor that should be working fine is not giving me a reading, it pins at 1.3 lambda in open air but doesn't change in the mower exhaust....that could be the truth I guess ....the push mower doesn't have a choke I can get to easily....gave up for the night.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:18 pm 
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A couple long days filled with confusion later and the onboard WBO2 controllers are MOSTLY working

The innovate controller I was using lst run wasn't working now because it was mislabeled....there is a good chance all my data from that time is flipped bank to bank.  Easy enough.

I had all kinds of things to sort with the on-board stuff.  I'm pretty sure the model I downloaded was a simulator test only kind of thing and has never actually worked with a real O2 sensor....I need to confirm that but for sure it wasn't behaving in a very useful way for me.  That was for sure confusing me but was not the biggest issue which was a sensor/wiring problem that took a while to find because I was sure the model wasn't doing what it should.  

So, I have a pair of innovate LC-2 WB setups.  They use  a bosch 7057 sensor and for whatever reason I had a 3rd sensor which was also 7057.  When I googled AEM 4.9 sensor I found it was a 17025 which is pinned differently so I adjusted my wiring accordingly....everyone seems to call the pins different names that I'm sure make sense to THEM, but I just went by the pinouts......and 2 days later realized that while all the new AEM stuff is 4.9, they spec a 4.2 sensor for the infinity ECUs so I had it connected wrong.....and the pins of the 7057 4.9 sensor match the 4.2 so it should have been easy.  

That sort I spent today taking reading on my O2 sensor tester......a mt dew bottle, and propane supply.  One sensor is the innovate and one driving on the ECU.

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My struggle was getting the controller tuned....and I've yet to really succeed.  I get it looking good going lean to rich

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but then rich to lean it wants to "ring" or oscillate out of control

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but if I tune to never oscillate then it often never matches the properly (cyan well above red)

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And that is where the night ended.  I have readings but there is a bit more work to be done.  I suspect that internally the ECU is adjusting the gain on the sensor at lambda=1  from 8 to 17  and then back to improve resolution over the range and that is causing my tuning issue...which brings me back to I don't believe the model I downloaded and have pretty heavily modified at this point ever ran a real sensor.





 


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O2 cal curve.JPG
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:49 pm 
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I made a few changes to cut the heater and reset the PID on over temp condition and put the PID values in a table so under temp/over temp can be tuned different and it seems pretty good now.

I pulled a log of the lambda values going full rich to full lean over 10 minutes or so with both the onboard and innovate (that I recalibrate just before the run) and I don't match everywhere.....but that's a simple table to adjust. Maybe tweak it a bit more then pull another log or 2 then switch sensors and do it again and its ready for prime time.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:31 pm 
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I am anything but an expert on this, h_ll, I very honestly have no idea what the bosch data sheet (bosch writes the worst sheets I've ever seen) is trying to tell me in most cases.  The HW is built so I should just be looking at the application section...but there isn;t one so not being an electronic person who "sees" that the chip block diagram does, I'm left kind of guessing.

So, this is all "as I understand it"  There are 2 main outputs from the chip then ECU also shows me some other info it gets over the SPI buss including a UR_cal signal.  My understanding is I heat the sensor until the UR signal matches the UR_cal signal and that means the cell resistance is correct and the output signal UA mis accurate.  Sounds simple but the UR signal seems to like to pin itself  against the upper limit so heat, heat, heat,...nothing...BAM its on the lower limit.  PID controllers just don't work well on things like this. 

Then add to it that the best I can tell 2 or the 3 sensors I have are bad and by chance the only good one was plugged into the innovate controller so  I'm loking at it's output and wondering how the heck I get that...the answer turned out I don't because the sensor I'm using is broken.  The brand new one, which is actually years old must have gotten dropped as its got an intermittent short...occasionally it works but....the other old one from the #8 cyl bank just outputs the wrong thing, it should be about a 0.5-2.5V signal and its more like 1.2-3.6 but can be driven to the right range if I move the UR control point to about 3.3....which had me thinking I must have read the bosch sheet wrong and missed the magic offset.....nope, just a bad sensor, put the last one on and magically 2.5V cal point is correct.

This has had me tearing my hair out honestly and I've completely given up on smooth, continuous, elegant solutions.  Right now the heater just comes on for 5 seconds, but on a limiter function as you suggested so on above x and off  and below/y just to put some heat in it as it acts very different cold than warm.  Then it goes to PID, but if it gets above 4.8V the limiter kicks back on and drives down off the upper limit what the PID can see it moving.  Then I have 2d PID table that look at both UR volts and the slope to decide how aggressive to act.  This is for sure a brute force approach.....I just got it going like this last last not but it seemed to be working better than previous attempts but needs a bit more tuning.

Contrast this with a guy making his own controller from scratch over the the rusEFI forum who said on his a simple PID is all that was needed.....that is what I was expecting then all these issues, including the ECU company owner saying "why not just buy an external controller and use your time on more important things?" had me believing all the issues I'm seeing are normal and why most just use an external dedicated controller......then rusEFI guy says its simple and plans to sell the units that cost about $8-$10 to make but I don't know the final price point.....that just doesn't match what I'm seeing.

Rant over...the battle continues.....hoping the block comes back soon so I do have better things to do and can justify setting this aside.....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:32 pm 
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hmmmm.....the 3 sensors I have (well 1 now) are all 7057, short for 0258007057 which has the standard bosch 4.9 lsu connector but is in fact a 4.2 sensor. reading the LC-2 instructions it says it works with both.....mine came with the 4.2 sensors. This knowledge may change things a bit.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:17 pm 
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A pair of actual 4.9 sensors will be here Friday, hopefully that sorts out these control issues.  I've been kind of hacking stuff into and out of the model....maybe use the time to pretty it up a bit so I'm restarting the work in an orderly state. 


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:34 pm 
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sensors arrived...but it turns out that just because the connectors LOOK the same doesn't mean they are the same. The 4.9 is the same shape but much smaller. There will be a slight delay on this part of the project while I again wait for parts.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:01 pm 
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Ok then. Now that I have an actual 4.9 sensor connected instead of a 4.2 I thought was a 4.9 the thing is dead stable with a simple, normal PID setup...DOH!

Speaking of dead, the one 4.2 I thought was working is really just spitting out gibberish....it moves up and down in response to a change in O2 but not in the way it should. I'm not certain the cal is right on the new sensor but I am certain then lawn mower isn't >1.3 and that and that I can get a bottle filled with pretty much straight propane. The new sensor put the mower at 0.8 which seems rich but....maybe. Just need to wire up the 2nd sensor and merge this new stuff into the main model and O2 sensors are done.
That means I really had no idea at all which mixture I was running when last the engine ran.....


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:19 am 
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Called the machine shop this morning, waiting for a call back

Fun with O2 sensors continues...but I think is mostly sorted. I'm pretty sure all the sensors that were installed when this engine was last running are trashed. Also one of my new genuine imitation bosch 4.9 sensors died....mostly died, its intermittent. I also learned to keep the charger on the battery....system voltage changes heater output it turns out.

At the moment I have a NB and a 4.9 connected and have plenty usable. The ECU has 100k 5v pullups on all AN pins which is not right to read a NBO2 sensor, but it seems work and with a new sensors is basically 0.2-1.2V output, so a 0.2V offset putting 1.0 lambda at 0.650V.

Then, and I'm trying to confirm this, the cj125 chip on the board appears setup for a 4.2 sensor....which I have little interest in using, but seem ok with the 4.9 but the calibration is off. I get an output of 0.04-4.03V full rich (shrouded in propane) to full lean (open air) and with the NB sensor telling me where 1.0 lambda is at about 1.1V (I may see if I can get a scope on the 4.9 sensor nerst pin just to be sure). I plotted the cal info from the bosch data sheet with V on the x axis and its linear (r^2>.99) though the rich region which is what I care about so I adjusted the calibration table to put 1.1V at 1.0 lambda and rescaled to put my .04V at there min output of .192V, then same on the other side of 1.0 knowing that isn't linear so anything leaner than about 1.5L is not actually calibrated but also not important to me.

All that done I'm pretty confident the mower I've been using as my sanity check is 1.1 lambda and covering the carb with my hand producess the expected responses. The screen shots are the more "controlled" mt dew bottle "test station", going propane ot air and back where I can make the change happen slowly.


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O2 log.JPG
O2 log.JPG [ 71.1 KiB | Viewed 3594 times ]
O2 1_0 lambda.JPG
O2 1_0 lambda.JPG [ 71.23 KiB | Viewed 3594 times ]
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