gemellocattivo.com

Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:32 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2200 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 220  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4251
FoaTech wrote:
I also use a torque plate when I hone it as well. I have seen that without it, the top doesn't deform like it does with the head on it.
They are not cheap, but they work like they should.


I'll need to think about that a bit. No doubt its best if working with cylinders in the block...but I still haven't quite gotten my head to that place....deep down I know that's where I need to get my head too.....I need to look at the logistics of it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4251
The 5mm minus pin and hole gauges came so I popped the 2 intakes, or what was lift of them out for a guide check.....it was not as bad as I expected. The pin will go through but kind of binds to where fingers can't pull it, I'd say the hole i .0001-.00015 under 5mm (.1685). Not terrible but it doesn't give the min 8/10ths clearance kw recommends. Thinking back I'm pretty sure this happened right after a " oh, that locks the timing 20 degrees retarded and the headers glow moment so I still think this is the root cause....

I'll open the guides up to more like .197 to get a full .001" clearance on intake and .0015" on the intakes I guess.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4251
mk e wrote:
FoaTech wrote:
I also use a torque plate when I hone it as well. I have seen that without it, the top doesn't deform like it does with the head on it.
They are not cheap, but they work like they should.


I'll need to think about that a bit. No doubt its best if working with cylinders in the block...but I still haven't quite gotten my head to that place....deep down I know that's where I need to get my head too.....I need to look at the logistics of it.


What do you use for the plate? 1" aluminum?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:13 pm
Posts: 794
For my Northstar, I had two pieces of 3/4" steel lasered out, Blanchard ground, then welded together to make a ~1.400" thick torque plate.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4251
It looks like the stuff they sell is typically about 2" alum.

What I'm trying to get my head around is ferrari makes cylinders and drops them in. They designed the head studs to put the cylinder in near perfect compression by screwing them into the main bearing webs not the deck...but I don't doubt things move when torqued....what I"m trying to get my head around is if I believe its repeatable with the slop of drop in cylinders or if the cylinder move differently and/or move in service?

The liners are raised so I guess a head gasket is required under the torque plate or for sure the deflection will be different than with a head.

Lots of work left before I get here so I have some time.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4251
ordered a couple .197" cobalt reamers to get the guides close to size.

I also decided to order a hardened and ground 25mm rod remembering that the cam journals were all warped and needed to be welded up to get straight then I borrowed a cam reamer. It was awesome I could borrow it but it was honestly more than a little dull so I'm kind of guessing the journal IDs which I never measured after reaming are underside. The bar will be to lap them once I confirm they need it.....not sure its a functional plan though. Also ordered a nice new a 25mm hand reamer, not a true cam ream as it doesn't do them all at once but it will ream the 1 while in the second and they sure already be pretty straight so a viable back-up plan maybe.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:13 pm
Posts: 794
mk e wrote:
It looks like the stuff they sell is typically about 2" alum.

What I'm trying to get my head around is ferrari makes cylinders and drops them in. They designed the head studs to put the cylinder in near perfect compression by screwing them into the main bearing webs not the deck...but I don't doubt things move when torqued....what I"m trying to get my head around is if I believe its repeatable with the slop of drop in cylinders or if the cylinder move differently and/or move in service?

The liners are raised so I guess a head gasket is required under the torque plate or for sure the deflection will be different than with a head.

Lots of work left before I get here so I have some time.


The important thing to remember is that things do move when you squeeze them, even if visualizing how isn't intuitive. An old Chevy, with the head bolt threads in the deck, pulls the bore out of round. Deep set head bolt threads avoid that, but there's still compressive stress in the bore walls; Squeezing a thin wall cylinder axially can change its ID and OD at different points in different ways.

Yes, I did use a stock head gasket when I had mine done. I also had bolt spacers so that I could use the stock head bolts with the stock torque sequence in order to make sure the block was deformed as intended.

A torque plate should replicate the stiffness of the cylinder head, but who knows WTF that is?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:13 pm
Posts: 794
mk e wrote:
ordered a couple .197" cobalt reamers to get the guides close to size.

I also decided to order a hardened and ground 25mm rod remembering that the cam journals were all warped and needed to be welded up to get straight then I borrowed a cam reamer. It was awesome I could borrow it but it was honestly more than a little dull so I'm kind of guessing the journal IDs which I never measured after reaming are underside. The bar will be to lap them once I confirm they need it.....not sure its a functional plan though. Also ordered a nice new a 25mm hand reamer, not a true cam ream as it doesn't do them all at once but it will ream the 1 while in the second and they sure already be pretty straight so a viable back-up plan maybe.


Have you checked the cams and bores for witness marks yet?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4251
TheDarkSideOfWill wrote:

Have you checked the cams and bores for witness marks yet?


Not well. There are some very minor surface imperfections on the cams I saw and I ASSUME the journals match but that will all need to be looked are closely as I complete the tear-down. I got basically nothing done last night but have a 4 day weekend ahead that I hope mean a day or 2 in the shop to get the engine all pulled apart, cleaned and inspected.....if I get to live in the shop I might get the welding done, that would make me happy.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4251
Well, I guess 1 clip on the timing chain master is a lot better than no clips....bit I was hoping to see 2


Attachments:
20190829_191419-resized-1024.jpg
20190829_191419-resized-1024.jpg [ 130.34 KiB | Viewed 5377 times ]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2200 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 220  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group