gemellocattivo.com

Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:16 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 336 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 34  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4250
Valve sizes you have in mind?
Intake design...8 TBs? plenum? what are you thinking?

Basic cam info you want me to run the baseline with? Stock lift and duration (@006 and @050 would be helpful)

Then the model should run.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:13 pm
Posts: 794
Last two weekends I've worked on both the Northstar and the '88 upper control arms.

For the Northstar, I got the bottom end bolted up, measured the main bores, then bolted on the '95 heads, measured the main bores again, then split the bottom end, installed the bearings and measured those.

The "one up" measurement orientation (shown below) showed 0.0002-0.0003 change with the heads bolted up, but the 2 up measurement did not change. Weird. So the main bores change shape and ideally should be honed with the heads bolted up. Interdasting.

This is how I had to do main bore measurements:

Image

This is how I had to read the 0.0001's on the mic.

Image

2006 bolt in 2006 head, upper row:
Image

2006 bolt in 2006 head, lower row:
Image

2006 head bolts getting cleaned:
Image

"2 up" measurement:
Image

"1 up" measurement:
Image

1993-1999 Northstar heads bolted on to 2006+ Northstar block:
Image

And all it requires are 10x of these spacers, McMaster PN 92510A596
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4250
here's a place to start
50mm TBs
TriY headers

I think I found the right OEM cam data

33/29 valve with flowed head, see data

Now, ideally I would know what the redline is and we could be talking about real flow numbers


Attachments:
Will 1.JPG
Will 1.JPG [ 194.64 KiB | Viewed 9987 times ]
Will1 flow.JPG
Will1 flow.JPG [ 217.05 KiB | Viewed 9987 times ]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4250
I found this on Stan Wiss site, I'll update

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Cadillac


Attachments:
Northstar flow.JPG
Northstar flow.JPG [ 202.56 KiB | Viewed 9987 times ]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4250
Here it is with the real flow data. This is the simpler filling&emptyinh model which just asks generic questions and assume you made good choice, sois basically what is possible with any given setup then the more advanced model helps you make the good choices to achieve this.


Attachments:
Will2.JPG
Will2.JPG [ 147.72 KiB | Viewed 9991 times ]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4250
Here is the intake cam in both intake and exhaust


Attachments:
Will intake cam both.JPG
Will intake cam both.JPG [ 167.37 KiB | Viewed 9994 times ]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4250
Now here is the double intake cam as the new base compared to my cams (275/287 @.006). I tried my intake as the exhaust but my exhaust does a little better, hastes my exhaust in the intake

with the proper lash
Attachment:
Will marks cams lash.JPG
Will marks cams lash.JPG [ 201.41 KiB | Viewed 9994 times ]


With 0 lash, like hydraulic lifters....this way they add nothing

Attachment:
Will marks cams.JPG
Will marks cams.JPG [ 183.14 KiB | Viewed 9994 times ]


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:13 pm
Posts: 794
mk e wrote:
here's a place to start
50mm TBs
TriY headers

I think I found the right OEM cam data

33/29 valve with flowed head, see data

Now, ideally I would know what the redline is and we could be talking about real flow numbers


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Damn, dude, doesn't Lana have enough for you to do? When should I drop the heads off? :P

8500 is good. I'm expecting I'll eventually get it that fast, but not faster.

CHRFab is the outfit that did most of the speed parts for the Northstar. If they were still in business I'd have ordered their craziest porting package and called it a day. Alan Johnson retired, though. I already have their valvesprings--which are adapted from another application, not custom wound--on my heads. So your graphic that shows them as the MFG is showing already ported flow numbers.

The numbers in the data entry screen look more like what I remember CHRFab's website saying the stock numbers were.

Here's pretty much the last archive of their website: https://web.archive.org/web/20170825132 ... hrfab.com/
Since they shut down, somebody else took up the name, but that shop doesn't do Northstars.

Here's the head work page, with flow numbers: https://web.archive.org/web/20170904220 ... d_Work.htm
Alan Johnson also mentioned on the phone with me that they did a $4k package with "cut down titanium Indy car valves" that was really the bees knees, but wasn't on the website.

I'm not sure if I'd go Tri-Y's in a Fiero... I know I can get equal length 4 into 1 to work. I *think* I can get 180 degree collectors to work, depending on how long the primaries are. The engine has a conventional V8 firing order and is NOT a flat plane crankshaft.

I'll start with a nylon Y2K+ manifold, but I do have a ITB package that someone built for his car... but has ZERO dyno or flow bench evaluation on it. He built it to look cool, then outright GAVE it to me when he moved on to something else; so I'm skeptical it would be any kind of world beater in power production, but maybe it's a good starting point.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:13 pm
Posts: 794
"Working from home" I see... ;)

mk e wrote:
Here it is with the real flow data. This is the simpler filling&emptyinh model which just asks generic questions and assume you made good choice, sois basically what is possible with any given setup then the more advanced model helps you make the good choices to achieve this.


That's the stock 266/244 combo?

mk e wrote:
Here is the intake cam in both intake and exhaust


That's the 266/266 combo? I see it does give up low end.

This is Dynomation? How accurate is it at low RPM?

Actually, one of the fun things about the stock cams is that I could accelerate uphill from 1000 RPM in 5th gear... and then pull nicely all the way to 7000... it was a GREAT package for a street car. I'm interested in not killing much low end, but maybe I could get some back with 12.5:1 pistons ;)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:47 pm
Posts: 4250
I was waiting for a call and figured I make myself useful
Yes, the first is 266/244....I guessed at the 0505 duration
Then I took the same guessed at 266 intake and installed in the exhaust....I did basically nothing with lobe centers

Dymomation 6. As with all simulations the further you get from optimal the less trust worthy they are so the 5k number will be pretty good, the 1k number....hard to say. I can tell you that you can never open up ports and add duration and expect to improve the bottom end.

The best way to help bottom end...tri-Y headers. When they are properly matched they are pretty much unbeatable when you need a wide power curve, nearly as good as small tube 4-1 down low and nearly as good as big step headers up top, I've never seen a street car that doesn't want them.

The intake is about flow. Bare head number are interesting but not all that helpful, you need to know how it flows with the intake in place. here is what DM thinks happen going from the ITB setup to OEM plenum (again with the 266/266 cams

Attachment:
Will 266-266 OEM plenum v ITB.JPG
Will 266-266 OEM plenum v ITB.JPG [ 201.58 KiB | Viewed 9996 times ]


Then this is the very best plenum design vs ITB...it still loses the hp war at every RPM. We could play around and optimize but unless you are talking some kind of variable setup you'll lose to ITBs.

Attachment:
Will 266-266 Best plenum v ITB.JPG
Will 266-266 Best plenum v ITB.JPG [ 223.45 KiB | Viewed 9996 times ]


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 336 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 34  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group