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Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:21 am 
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100hp/l is very different from 100ft-lbs/l, but if people are boosting with no issue than it's not really a concern I suppose. When I was picking I saw the 585 were popular because they are the hottest and said "done" without another thought once I saw they come in red on Ebay for $10 each.

And again, the ecu question was only related to COP conversion as that means making sure to pick parts not meant to go together...but most do want a charge high signal like the GM coils so ther should be a good selection that will work for you.....but not all so keep an eye on that was my only point there.

DBW is kind of nice but there are lots and lots of cable operated TBs out there that a simple adapter or a few minutes with a welder will get onto your intake....if your ecu doesn't support DBW I'd just pick a cable TB and be done with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:36 am 
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The original <'99 throttle is cable with integrated MAF, so that's the easy button if the ECU would do it.
All the 58x ECUs are DBW, but they're the modern thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:25 pm 
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Ahh...I had it backwards. Same-ish solution though, lots of DBW TBs that fit or easily adapt.

Then there are a few solutions for the pedal. I used a....'96? 911 setup but I know there are other similar setups that were used as engines switched over before chassis setups did so cable pedal to a sensor not the newer pedal mounted sensor. I have the stock pedal with the sensor about 2ft away in the center console

If any of this is in anyway helpful


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:05 pm 
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mk e wrote:
Ahh...I had it backwards. Same-ish solution though, lots of DBW TBs that fit or easily adapt.

Then there are a few solutions for the pedal. I used a....'96? 911 setup but I know there are other similar setups that were used as engines switched over before chassis setups did so cable pedal to a sensor not the newer pedal mounted sensor. I have the stock pedal with the sensor about 2ft away in the center console

If any of this is in anyway helpful


It's been done both ways in the Fiero world: cable pulling a pedal sensor and swapping the entire pedal assembly in. Installing the pedal assembly is supposed to be not difficult. It would take a little digging to figure out what sensor the guy who used the remote sensor used.

I'm pretty sure the 58x GM stuff can't use a cable throttle at all, as they made the entire product line DBW in '05/'06, so there was no need to cable throttles anymore. That's either a result of or in preparation for NHTSA making stability control mandatory. From my '92 BMW with DBW, at least 80% of stability control is just chopping throttle.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:01 pm 
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So senor on pedal or pedal with cable/linkage to sensor will get you compatible with the ecu...you just need to pick one and do it :)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:24 pm 
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Looks a lot easier now that I found out LS4 throttles are the right size. :arrow:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:12 pm 
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I love it when a plan comes together!

Unlike a carb the TB really can't be too big, they get too big to add more hp but never really to a point where it costs hp so when in doubt go big. The down side is the throttle gets less linear and rpm wants to explode off idle and and nothign really changes in the final whatever % of motion, but there is usually a table to set the pedal to TB response curve so you can tune it to act anyway you please....not sure what options are in the oem ecu though


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:08 pm 
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The machinist got the TOB Holder back to me... I didn't play with it much because this turned into a prep & paint weekend. I need to noodle the design a little more to figure out if I have it right or not... I probably should order a back up bearing in case I need to drive this one back off after the test fit. The circle of 4 holes is for driving the bearing off. This unit places the bottom of the TOB 0.350 closer to the engine than the stock stamped holder/carrier would.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:02 pm 
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Still waiting for the pan & water manifold to get Cerakoted, but there's plenty to do otherwise.
I put what I hope are the final touch ups on the heater & A/C tubes
I painted some remaining loose parts. This is a Rodney Getrag rear bracket plus a part of his early style urethane transmission mount, updated pieces for the Storm Trooper upper control arms and the prototype TOB holder

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I also got the oil filter adapter mostly assembled. I installed the oil cooler bypass valve & cap, oil filter bypass valve & filter nipple. I'm still looking at how to install the oil pressure sender/switch so that it does not interfere with the forward engine mount bracket. I ordered some plumbing parts from McMaster to try out for that.
Also shown are the Parker M24x1.5 to -12 JIC 37 degree flare adapters. I didn't get a shot, but they are a GREAT fit on the filter adapter. The ID is a little on the small side, but should be enlargeable to 21/32 (0.656) without much drama. You can see the unmodified fitting next to the oil filter nipple below. I tossed the oil filter nipple into Evapo-Rust for a bit to restore it to its original shiny glory.

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I realized that I did not have a good post-porting photo compared to this pre-porting photo:

TheDarkSideOfWill wrote:

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So I took one:

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Same with this one:

TheDarkSideOfWill wrote:

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And you can see the difference here:

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I assembled the TOB & Holder. The press fit of the TOB to the hold squeezed down the bushing to the point that it's no longer a slip fit on the TOB guide in the transmission. Interesting... I'll have to figure out what to do about that.

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So far so good... but then I got bogged down in lapping the 37 degree flare fittings on my oil cooler hoses.
I can't imagine why this seat was leaking during my pressure test

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Here's the Parker adapter during lapping... very nice

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I built a leak checker:

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The fitting stack up:
Garden hose => female/female garden hose gender changer => male garden hose to 3/4" NPT adapter => 3/4" pipe coupling => Fittings to be leak checked

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That should flush the lapping grit out of the fittings:

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If you snug up on a bad seat, this is the leak you're likely to see.

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However... after working on this joint several times over, this is the best I could get to, tightened with a wrench.

https://imgur.com/RPWofHC


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:15 am 
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Still waiting for the cerakoted modified water manifold, thermostat housing and oil pan... but getting fussy stuff done so that I can just move the engine over once it's complete.

I think I dealt with the fittings for the oil pressure gauge sender & oil pressure switch for the fuel pump. I had an extra forward engine mount bracket for the mockup... very handy.

GM used a switch on most/all Cadillac applications. The Aurora 4.0 had gauge and I had an Aurora sender on the old engine. If installed straight, it passes just above the mount bracket. The way the forward exhaust manifold sits inside the bracket and everything else around it means that it's inaccessible and unmaintainable without removing the bracket. Yeah, no. Not dealing with that.

The Aurora sender uses 3/8" pipe and screws right into the filter adapter. A lot of comparable GM senders use 1/8" pipe and maybe there are some that use 1/4" pipe. I snagged a 3/8 - 1/8" reducing bushing from McSmasher and had an 1/8" street el hanging around from when I thought I'd use it on a block drain.

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Put it together and it looks like this:

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Well... that's not going to work. Time to fit and futz.
My dad and I snagged a 3/8" pipe die and die handle. The die handle has a thumb screw in from the side to hold the die... that's pretty normal. The die handle is a zinc casting and having been in a machine shop for years, it's pretty beat up. The screw hole stripped as we were messing with it. Carefully measuring the thumb screw showed it was not 1/4-28 or 10-32 but rather 6mm. Lol. We actually had 6x1.0 helicoils from repairing some fasteners in the Jeep intake manifold, so I popped one in to get us back in business. At least we returned the borrowed tool in better shape than when we took it. The helicoil was just BARELY short enough to fit in the radial wall thickness of the die holder.

From there, we knew we'd need to adjust the diameter of the die... so in backing off the screw that pushed the slit in the side of the die open, one entire side of the drive slot broke off the screw head. Fortunately it was backed off enough that the improved retainer screw could squeeze the die a little smaller.

So we had to:
-Run the reducer bushing into the die until the hex touched the die
-Pull it back out and test fit it in the filter adapter
-Pull it back out of the filter adapter
-Tighten the retaining screw in the die holder a little more
-Return to step 1

...until the hex came within about 1/32-1/16 of the side of the filter adapter

Then we went through all the same steps with the 1/8" pipe *tap* in the bushing...

But ultimately got to this point:

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I think that's workable, although will probably require a 1/8" NPT male to female adapter to get the sender clear of the bracket.

At least tapping the oil filter adapter for the M24 fittings turned out quite nicely.

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I also drilled out the M24x1.5 to -12 JIC 37 degree adapters. They arrived with a 0.548 (nominal 14mm?) ID, but the oil filter nipple and other -12 fittings in the system have 0.625 ID. A 15/16" collet fits the M24 threads nicely, so that worked out well. However, when I snugged the collet and started the lathe, the fitting wobbled. I had to snag a gauge pin and pop it into the drill chuck to get the fitting straight. I got lucky in that the 0.548 gauge pin was right at the limit of what would go into the 1/2" chuck...

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Also had to find a Silver and Demin style 5/8" drill because of the aforementioned 1/2" chuck.

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But it worked out really well.

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In other news, I called the TE Connectivity tech line on Thursday. They recommended RNF-100 shrink tube. DR-25 is the go-to product for engine bay use, but it's only available in black. I wanted clear shrink tube for individual wire strain relief. DR-25 is fluoroelastomer (Viton?), while RNF-100 is polyolefin. RNF-100 is rated for 135C, which is above the 125C minimum temp rating for engine compartment use. It also tolerates splash exposure to automotive fluids.
The tech guy was hardly an engineer, but did know enough to say that the smaller diameters of polyolefin don't get stiff at temperature like the larger diameters do.
RNF-100 at 3/32" ID is also available in 4' "sticks", which Mouser had in abundance. I was about to place an order with Mouser when I looked through my existing collection of shrink tube and noticed that the 25' spool of 3/32" tube I ordered from McSmasher is RNF-100. Sweeeet! Of course all the other shrink tube I have is PVC and only rated for 105C, so it shouldn't be used in the engine compartment. Ooopsie.

My order of selective gold-plated GT-150 connector pins arrive from Mouser, so I can get to re-pinning and strain relieving the valley harness. I'm mostly doing that as an exercise in OCD, to see how it turns out. GM didn't strain relieve the wires or connectors, and the wire seals provide a minimal amount of strain relieve already, so I'm most likely gilding the lily and don't expect to build the main harness that way... although I may need to install the oil pressure sender connector with strain relief, since the wires have to make an immediate 180 out of the connector.

ALSO: My original intake manifold has been soaking in Simple Green for a few months now. I have another manifold that I snagged off eBay a while back. I checked inside it and it's practically new, so I think I'll switch manifolds. Combined with getting the valley harness prepped means I should be able to put the manifold together and install it either this coming weekend or the next.


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