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Which means "Evil Twin". Lets see your projects where you change boring into fun or create the fun from scratch.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:23 pm 
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mk e wrote:
Sounds like a plan. Sometimes a forced pause which seems annoying actually ends up helping


As it turns out, Ballenger doesn't list it, but there is a 16 pin GT connector pair:

https://www.eficonnection.com/home/prod ... -connector

https://www.eficonnection.com/home/prod ... -connector

So I can use two pairs, with a male and female on each side of the harness, in order to have 32 pins to replace a 14 pin and supply an additional 10... so I'll have reserve capacity, which is the definition of luxury.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:38 pm 
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Been looking for CS130 info in order to set up the wiring correctly. There's a lot of minimalist stuff for people who are scared of wires.

I finally found this:
https://alternatorparts.com/cs130-sbpage1.html

Page 2 actually has the terminal definitions... only place I've ever seen them.

Maybe I should hook up the P terminal to a frequency input on the ECM so I can log alternator RPM next to engine RPM and evaluate the performance of my accessory drive... :-D

Since I have the accessory drive figured out, I went ahead and installed the crank damper.
I have both a GM bolt and an ARP 251-2501 to choose from. The thread is M14x1.5 and ARP happened to have a bolt for a Ford Duratec that should work. The ARP bolt comes with a hardened washer, but the chamfer on the edge of the washer and the lead in chamfer around the bore in the crank damper are the same size, so the washer contacts the damper on the 45 degree face. That's probably not a great thing to do.

The GM bolt has a larger washer (slightly convex, so it may have some "belleville spring" effect. The ARP washer is loose, but the GM washer is captive. I'd have to chuck the GM bolt in a lathe and turn the threads down a little bit to remove the washer.
I need to check the GM torque procedure... ARP's instructions say 140 ftlbs, but the generic instructions have numbers from 184 to 205 ftlbs for a 14mm bolt. Since the clamp load of the damper on the oil pump drive sleeve is the ONLY interface that provides oil pump drive torque, I want to overkill it where I can.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-251-2501

I picked up crimp lugs for the 4ga starter cable and 3/8" stud on the junction block I showed above. I'll get the cable cut and stripped this week, then mark the orientation for the lug next weekend, then get it crimped next week. ALLTRBO works in electrical & harness and has the tooling. Stuff he built is orbiting the Moon, so he can do fine for The Mule.

I also did a bunch of reading on CS130 alternator terminals in order to get my alternator wiring right. I posted the link to the page above. V6 Fieros have older type SI alternators, while Iron Duck Fieros (at least in '87) have the then new CS alternator. The Fiero CS alts have the SILP terminal configuration, while the 2006 Corvette (and many other apps) have the SFLP terminal configuration. The 2006 Corvette *I think* has the CS130D alternator, since the original CS130 stopped in 1996.

P
Pulse?
Connected to the stator, and may be connected externally to a tachometer or other device

L
Lamp?
Alternator “Turn on” voltage. This must run through an indicator lamp or other resistance.
Fieros use HIRBTS, but could work with a HIR source as well. Fed through C500 B3

F / I
Field?
Internal?
Connected internally to field positive, and may be used as a fault indicator.
Corvette ECM monitors regulator duty cycle via the F terminal
1987 Fiero 4 cylinder connects I terminal to HIR +12V via C500 B1

S
Sense?
May be connected externally to a voltage, such as battery voltage, to sense the voltage to be controlled.
May be connected directly to the output stud to simplify installation; Fiero installation does this
May be connected directly to fuse block in order to compensate for resistive losses in the alternator cable; Corvette installation does this

1987 Fiero (4 cylinder):
S Wired directly from output stud
I From Fan E fuse (HIR) via C500 B1
L From Gages fuse (HIRBTS) through charge indicator via C500 B3 to turn on alternator
P Not used

2006 Corvette
S From Horn/Alt fuse (Hot at all Times)
F To ECM to monitor Field duty cycle
L From ECM to turn on alternator
P Not used

The Mule:
S Wired directly from output stud? From engine junction block? From body junction block?
F To ECM to monitor Field duty cycle
L From Gages fuse (HIRBTS) via C500 B3; maintains indicator lamp functionality
P Not used

I'll pick a place from which I want to sense the voltage to which the alternator regulates. I'll connect the F terminal to the ECM as in the Corvette application. If I wire the L terminal like the Corvette, the ECM will turn the alternator on and off, which is cool, but I would lose charge indicator functionality. I can wire the L terminal to the Fiero charge indicator light in the dash, then the alternator will turn on in RBT&S and I'll still have a functioning charge indicator. I'm not sure if the Corvette ECM will have heartburn over this arrangement or not.

Also, a user on another forum asked for the resistances of my Magnecor wires:

2: 3.64k
4: 3.67k
6: 3.66k
8: 3.56k

1: 1.65k
3: 2.13k
5: 2.13k
7: 1.65k

Easy to see there are 3 different lengths.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:26 am 
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Helped a few friends with a few things on Saturday.
Also, my dad owns a '73 GMC Motorhome that was my Uncle's, until he passed away in 2017.
It doesn't run well and the distributor has been seized in the block. We pulled the intake manifold for access to the distributor to start working on removing it. It's an OldS(*) 455 w/ TH425 trans.

Sunday I was able to get some mechanical stuff done. I got the starter cable stripped and marked for crimping. I installed 5x0.8mm screws to secure the electrical junction block, which let me fit the starter cable. I drilled and tapped the other hole in the alternator rear bracket. I turned down the threads on the GM crank bolt, liberated the washer, drilled it out for the ARP bolt and installed that pair with ARP moly assembly lube... I just need to call ARP to discuss the torque spec.

If it sounds like the mechanical tasks are getting tiny and fussy, that's because the mechanical tasks are getting tiny and fussy. I'm coming up to the completion of all mechanical work other than simple assembly. :Yahoo!:

I have drill next weekend, but I'm targeting having the harness design done, wire list done and main harness materials order delivered by the 4/30-5/01 weekend. Of course, I'll probably have to spend that weekend in POR-15 prison instead of working on wiring. I can also put the cradle up on a heavy duty cart that I've been using as a workbench, assemble the entire powertrain there and still have it at a comfortable height for building the harness. I'll probably do that, as seeing the engine off the stand, assembled to the transmission and on the cradle ready to go into the car will be really motivating for building the harness.


(*)OldSlomobile


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:55 am 
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TheDarkSideOfWill wrote:
Helped a few friends with a few things on Saturday.
Also, my dad owns a '73 GMC Motorhome that was my Uncle's, until he passed away in 2017.
It doesn't run well and the distributor has been seized in the block. We pulled the intake manifold for access to the distributor to start working on removing it. It's an OldS(*) 455 w/ TH425 trans.

Sunday I was able to get some mechanical stuff done. I got the starter cable stripped and marked for crimping. I installed 5x0.8mm screws to secure the electrical junction block, which let me fit the starter cable. I drilled and tapped the other hole in the alternator rear bracket. I turned down the threads on the GM crank bolt, liberated the washer, drilled it out for the ARP bolt and installed that pair with ARP moly assembly lube... I just need to call ARP to discuss the torque spec.

(*)OldSlomobile


In other news, the distributor came out without too much trouble once we built a custom pry-bar to deal with it.
Since the vehicle is a '73, it had a small cap distributor. Large cap HEIs came out in '74. My dad has such a distributor that will go back into the engine. What we do not have is the off-center air cleaner base that GM used with the HEI because the concentric air cleaner base used with the small cap distributor interferes with the large cap HEI.

I want to do a Duramax/Allison in the thing, but that "requires" buying a $3000 LF72 transfer case/U-drive gearbox and figuring out what front diff I can use.

Of course I haven't gotten my wire list done yet and tonight and tomorrow night I'm going to be helping friends with homeowner(*) stuffs, so I won't get the harness materials delivered by the weekend. I'm going to be in POR-15 prison this weekend anyway.

I'm probably going to order the Delphi electrical center, but I need to make sure I can order all the relevant parts shown in the catalog. Since the drawing is not easy to find, I'll probably need to have that in hand to get the terminal names before I can complete the wire list.

(*) Ho-meow-ner


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:41 am 
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Just ordered a Delphi/Aptiv 12110594 modular electrical center. It's small and holds 4 micro-relays and 6 mini-fuses. I ordered the component, terminal lock, spring latches and top cover. I also ordered the base, but that was backordered. I ordered from Mouser since CustomConnectorKits does not list it, and Mouser showed up on DuckDuckGo.

Once I have those parts in hand, I'll evaluate what terminals I'll need to order. There's a combination of 280, 480 and 630 terminals required, and I need to figure out how I'll be populating it.

With the modular electrical center family, I can upgrade from a 1-way base to a 3- or 4-way base and add modules, should I discover the need to upgrade. The catalog does not show a 2 way base, which is interesting.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:24 am 
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Progress! sadly wiring always seems to be slow going and happens when you're looking forward to being done


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:06 pm 
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I'm good with the actual work... I just need to finalize the design & BOM and order the materials. Having the electrical center will let me figure that stuff out.

Also, the electrical center is tiny... about 4" long and 2.5" wide, so finding a home for it will be fairly easy.
I also already have a pretty strong idea of how I want to route the harness, where all the branches go and how everything all the sub-harnesses will hook up together.

I have the starter cable and valley sub-harness ready... the valley sub-harness was all the wiring of which I posted photos here previously.

I'll use the stock (for now) '90's Cadillac manifold sub-harness that carries all the injector and MAP sensor wiring. I'll at some point (I guess that should be sooner rather than later) reorganize it so the connector is at the pulley end instead of the flywheel end.

I can order coil sub-harnesses, but they'd show up identical. I want the production break gender reversed between banks so that the banks can't be mixed up. I can re-pin the production breaks on purchased harnesses, and trim them to the length I need and re-dress them in DR-25... but by that point I might as well just make my own.

I also need to build a cockpit sub-harness for the DBW pedal (6) and cruise control switches (4).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:26 am 
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Catching up on photos:

Junction block:

Image

Starter cable crimped:

Image

Whole starter cable:

Image

Check out this really awesome throttle adapter that somebody made!

Image

Image

The tensioner mounting bolt is snugly nested into a casting feature on the head:

Image

Prototype alternator rear mount:

Image

I have not been able to test it with belt tension yet, but it's probably ok. I'll trim it down a good bit, as well as open up the OE bracket around the power stud.

Crank pulley in place with ARP bolt & GM washer:

Image


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 8:15 am 
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Modular Electrical Center module:

Image

Starter cable installed:

Image

Split convoluted tubing:

Image

The way the junction block works with the manifold in place:

Image

The lavender wire is the crank wire. I'll put a single pin Metri-pack 630 connector in the middle of it, and terminate the other end in the C500 connector once the powertrain is in the vehicle.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 2:49 pm 
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Ordered the terminals for the electrical center today. Fussing through that list was annoying. The relays take Metri-Pack 480 control pins for 18-20ga wire and Metri-Pack 630 pins for the switched circuit. The electrical center page specifically called out 480 *RELAY* terminals, which are slightly different than the standard 480 female terminals. The same page did not specifically call out 630 standard vs relay terminals, so I ordered both. Four of each set are for 16ga wire for the A/C Comp and Fuel Pump relays. However, the PowerTrain relay gets a single 10ga input and dual 12ga outputs, so I had to order ONE of each of those terminals.

The fuse area uses two rows of Metri-Pack 280 "bus bar" terminals for the input side of the fuses and standard 280 female terminals on the output side. The bus bar terminals are only available from Mouser in a string of 20, so I had to get that when I need two strings of 3 each, for 12ga wire, to work with the dual 12ga wires coming off the PowerTrain relay.

Then I need five 280 female terminals for the five fuses.

So, yeah, fussy. Now that I have that figured out, I should be able to finish the wire list and get the main shipment of harness parts ordered.


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