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Ferrari 3408 project
http://gemellocattivo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=295		 Page 4 of 9
Author:  TheDarkSideOfWill [ Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
Does the 3.6 have piston oil squirters?
Author:  Madhatter [ Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
TheDarkSideOfWill wrote:
Does the 3.6 have piston oil squirters?


The 360 block utilizes oil squirters for the pistons/gudgeon pin. Looking at how it's been done Ferrari simply machined into the main oil galley that runs thru the block and can be found on all the V8 blocks since 1974. I'll try and a get a pic or two this week as a pic is worth a thousands words right :)

On the headers I thing the 348/355 & 360 are all about the same, the 430 and 458 are much larger in primary dia. For our 4L build due to the intake we needed 2" primaries.

A great inexpensive program for exhaust calcs is PipeMax.
Author:  TheDarkSideOfWill [ Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
I was thinking that if Ferrari had built the 360 headers a bit bigger than the 348's, then those could be an intermediate between 348's and custom.
The 430's and 458's of course have much larger bore centers than the Dino engines.

Thanks for snapping pics!
Author:  Madhatter [ Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
I should clarify that the header bolt pattern on the 360 is different from the other blocks, so they won't bolt up without cutting off the flanges and welding on new ones. Not worth the trouble as stock headers have an internal CAT that likes to fall apart and grenade the engine and they are just as pricey as getting custom units made of better material.
Author:  TheDarkSideOfWill [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
Lol... interdasting.

What's the block deck height of the 3.6?
Tall enough for an 80mm stroke and 6" conrods?

Do you have a rod handy? What's the big end width?
Author:  Madhatter [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
360 deck height I think is the same, but I'd have to check. The rod dims are the same though, that I do know. 360 rods are Ti and that comes with it's own problems, galling, chemical corrosion, warping etc.. Ti rods are not meant for long term use, i.e. they need to be pulled and inspected periodically not an issue for race cars that go thru that process but a big PITA for a street engine, so I don't use them and instead have custom rods mfg. Price point, just to properly inspect Ti rods will run ~$200 ea. replacement Ti rods are ~$1300 ea! Yeah over $10k for a set of Ti rods is NUTS! :shock: :shock:
Author:  TheDarkSideOfWill [ Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
I realize that Ferrari has used the same rods for decades... How long are they?

I was thinking that I'd end up with NASCAR conrods, like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/371791995715

The rods for the 1.888 and 1.850 journals are common at 6.200", and slightly rare at 6.000"... I haven't seen any shorter than that.

So I'm curious about the 360 block deck height to see if I could use 6" rods with an 80mm stroke and still have enough block deck left over into which to actually squeeze a piston.

Also wondering about the big end width on the Ferrari rods... are the NASCAR rods too wide to put two on a journal in the same journal length as the Ferrari rods.

Good to hear the 3.6 blocks have oil squirters.
Author:  mk e [ Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
Ferrari rods are 137mm or 5.394"......there is no way you are getting a 6" rod in there I don't think...unless you cut and weld it shorter (which I've done and ran them in a road race H-D for 2 seasons BTW)

The steel 348 rods you have are pretty nice....I would just use them. A lot of Honda stuff looks like they copied it from ferrari....there might be an affordable aftermarket rod out there that is close enough to use if you dig a bit.
Author:  TheDarkSideOfWill [ Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
That's a pretty short rod.
I'd like to get away from the tiny Ferrari rod journals, especially if I'm going to have a billet crank made.
I don't have the measurements yet to know if it's possible to modify a 3.6 crank to use a bolt-on fitting to drive the 348/355 style transaxle or if the crank has to be made for it.

There is some good stuff in the Honda aftermarket, and Honda journal sizes were adopted for NASCAR. I was looking at NASCAR rods because NASCAR parts have close to F1 level development engineering plus a very healthy volume discount.

I could take another trick out of the Honda book and have the block deck plated to use longer rods, but then I'd have to use special timing belts as well (although if I just made adapter plates to relocate the tensioners, that might allow me to keep stock length belts.) With removable wet sleeves, a Ferrari engine is a great candidate for deck plating.

And the engine would get slightly wider.
Author:  mk e [ Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ferrari 3408 project
and it you're doing all that might as well add some stroke and make it a 5 liter :)

I guess the question I haven't asked yet is what will you be doing wiht the car? Are you going to road race or maybe planning a lot of track time? I ask because I'm hearing a lot of things on the list that are not about making HP but making it for extended times. I think my engine could probably only run at full power for a couple hours total before needing a full rebuild and not a couple hours all at once but broken into 5-15 minute stints, but I know it will spend 99+% of it's life below 3500 so actual life will be 50k+ miles. Billet crank, deck plates. cams....you'll have a $50k engine build on your hands in no time.....ask me how I know :oops:
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