gemellocattivo.com

Another thought running though my head is I'm 3/4 thinking I should be running shielded wire for the analog sensor signals. Just running the analog stuff separate from the digital stuff might be all that's needed but with the ECU up under the dash the harness is long so lots of opportunity for noise to....I'll need to think on this a bit.

12 O2 sensors? And you were intending to go waste spark?

You might want to contact a guy who goes by Mojo Ignitions, or Mojo Tuning. He's ex-NASA and has fooled around with the LS2 coils and their wannabe clones a lot, and has some good, measured data on them.

14 o2 sensors, you forgot the 2 in the collectors. I'm going for a world record!

When I used to mess with H-Ds it mattered because of the common crank and 45 degree offset meant you could spark the incoming charge on the 1 cylinder and waste spark cost hp but on an even fire engine I just can't see it mattering. I tried both waste and direct on an engine once long ago and couldn't tell the difference....but that's a sample of 1 so i could be wrong and it's mute now since I have 12 coils.

I have a lot of wire to buy and run! I just looked quick and shielded wire for the O2 sensors will be about $200 so my $25 sensors that were a great deal and too cheap not to install are really
25 - sensor
9 - bung with plug
10 connector
15 - wire

so more like $60 than $25

I got the front caliper mounted, lots of chips! And there is still a lot of metal that can come off but I'm not so sure I planned the wheel sensor part very well. i need to think about that before I do any more.

looks "Road Warrior" .The pedal box!...sign me up for one of those.

Been nursing a migraine all day... found a link to mojo performance, I think that's what cribbj was thinking of.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/archiv ... 4304087862

also an informative link on those coils for dwell.
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 31&t=48931

waste spark vs sequential is only going to effect the amp draw per unit of time with dependent on the number of coils. 12 coils sequential will have the same draw as 6 in waste spark for the same period of time. What to know though is the amp draw for a given dwell.

EM in engine harnesses also needs to be closely looked at. for example injectors have significant back EMF hence why they are not grounded to the chassis but return to the ECU, however the leads carry a pulsed signal and can cause false triggers on the low voltage transistor trigger to the coils. Good idea to keep injector harness separate and shielded, also don't run the ignition harness along side.
An injector might open for a millisecond or less, or open for nearly the full pulse repetition rate time window. This means the injector's magnetic field has to closely follow the injector voltage. When the magnetic field rapidly collapses it generates a very fast high-energy voltage pulse. This is actually the same way a standard ignition coil generates high voltage. Each fuel injector is a tiny single-winding spark coil. While charged with only 12-15 volts dc, opening voltage on injector shutoff can be hundreds of volts of reverse polarity.

more a bit later...

Mark, that's him - looks like his website has been hacked so there's only the FB page and that thread on SF. His name is Rick Bowers and he's a retired EE from NASA (Shuttle ground support, I think). Here's his email: rick AT mojoperf DOT com.

Thanks for the info guys!

The fuel pressure sensor showed up yesterday and can with cal info which is nice, but the connector it was supported to come with is actually a pigtail...pigtails are a pet peeve of mine, I figin hate the idea of putting slice in a wiring harnesses.....so I need to find new pins for it so I can wire it in properly I guess. Having it will be nice though because I can adjust fuel pressure to see if the the spay pattern of duty cycle change affects hp and not need to re-tune as the ECU will will fuel flow constant.

I'm still mentally struggling with the WBO2 situation. The motec will only read O2 info from a motec wide band controller and that pisses me off a bit.....of a lot. i can read anything I hook up, I just can't use it as O2 data unless it's from a motec controller. The LTCD 2 channel controller is $850 and they STRONGLY recommend using only the motec sensors at $150 each, so $1150 for 2 WB channels vs $300 using the innovative setup. Then logging upto 200 channels at 200hz is $375, free is 10hz on fixed channels that cover the very basics, including 2 O2 channels if they are O2 from a motec controller, so I can't see my new 12 NBO2 in the log or my innovative WBO2 without paying unless I hook them to a standard channel. Oil temp and pres are standard so I can used those for WB logging. Logging isn't reall needed since there is a time trace (mini-log) in the tuning software but it's sure nice. Motec and their crippled software........even the frikin pos MegaSquirt does better on this stuff than the base motec software!

end rant.

You know I've always wondered about this, why is O2 data not able to be fed directly to an ECU? makes no sense to me, it's just a signal. But as you've noticed there is always some 'box' needed - why???

I wonder, could you utilize your own homebrew convertor using MS software and circuits that then is fed into the Motec? Are you trying to use all 12 channels for real time adjustment? or is it simply for collection? I know it's not compact but possibly standalone for the O2 data. 10Hz... man that's slooooooooooooooow nearly useless, I'd say they know that and hence the massive gap to 200Hz and that O2 sensors on avg are 300milliseconds in response which is .......... 200Hz

Unless Motec is feeding additional data or an carrier signal into the ECU with their box I don't see why any convertor wouldn't work. 'course that requires knowing what the box is looking for... shouldn't be to hard with a night or two of google searching the deepweb

looking over some of the data on the D585 coils, shows that at about ~4ms of dwell it'll pull ~10Amps, so your looking at ~120Amps peak for the coils. Of course as dwell drops so does the draw.. If you've noticed a lot of V12's up to the 90's ran 2 alternators.

Wide band sensors need a controller to make them work and most ECUs make to buy that separate then have a 0-5V input for the signal of WB. NB is simple, you just give it 5V sensor voltage and you get back a 0-1v signal, no controller needed.

On the M800 motec had a borsh WB controller built in...that you couldn't use without paying them $375/channel but NB you could just connect.....then the external WB controllers got bot good and cheap s so there was really no need to pay the $375, just connecd to to the NB input channel and go. Motecs answer on the new M1xx ecus is to not accept ANY O2 signal other than from their controller and we're back to paying them again is you want to use it.

It should be possible to make a CAN unit to read any O2 controller and send it to the motec.......just takes time. maybe next winter.

Most ECUs these days log at up to 200hz, but that eats memory so you put most stuff on a slower rate...like 10. You're looking for trends anyway most of the time, not cycle specific events so it's fine for basic tuning. motec has 2 logging upgrade for the M1xx series, $375 for 200 channels at 200hz which is most anything normal people need, or 2000 channel at 1000 hz for another $1200 I think it is (one need to pay the $375, then the $1200 so $1500). The way they see it people are willing to pay for logging so they should be charging extra ....so they give you about 10 predefined channels at 10hz so you can see how useful it COULD be but isn't until you pay....the words "cripple code" come to mind

As far as coils and amps, they draw WAY less at first and the draw grows which is why it's so important to set the dwell right....you'll fire the coil if you don't So you aren't using 120 amps, more like 20 to maybe 30. at max rpm and much lest at low rpm. It'll be fiiiiiine.....